Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to PG Pulse Press Ganey's podcast on all things healthcare, tech and human experience. In this podcast, we'll be joined by some of the best and brightest minds in the industry to discuss challenges, share insights, and innovate the future of healthcare. Thanks for tuning in. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: You're listening to a podcast by press Ganey where healthcare disruptors talk about the people and innovations behind the human experience in healthcare. I'm Jeff Doucet, press Ganey's chief nursing officer, and we're on the floor here at HX. Joining me today are two names you will now want to know in nursing, our very own peer nominated HX 24 Nursing Excellence Award winners, David Willis and Annie Lynn Ocumpo. David Willis has been a frontline nurse for over 20 years and is currently the nursing operations manager right here in Orlando, Florida. Health. His colleague shared that David is one of the main reasons why the Ed team truly feels like a family. David, thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:01:07] Speaker C: Thank you for having me and for the nice compliment.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah, we're glad to have you. And Annie Ocampo is a wound ostomy continence nurse at Cedar Sinai in Los Angeles, where she was peer nominated for the palpable, positive impact that she has on quality care and the environment. So congratulations to both of you on your recognition. And thank you, Annie, for joining us as well.
[00:01:28] Speaker D: Thank you for having us today. It feels great to be here. This is the human experience. It is.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: And it's so exciting, isn't it?
[00:01:35] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: So how did you feel after coming off the stage this morning?
[00:01:37] Speaker D: What?
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Underneath there were a lot of nerves.
[00:01:40] Speaker C: Right? I'll suck in bad.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Well, you guys did absolutely great. And, you know, one of the things that I love about our ability to recognize amazing nurses like you is that we get to share your story with everybody who's in the room and then all of our clients through incredible podcasts like this. So I really, really appreciate you taking the time and so honored to meet both of you. Well, we're going to hit a couple of different topics that I think are really important to nurses and nurse leaders and would just love to get your perspective on what you're seeing. I mean, you represent two very diverse organizations on both coasts of the country, and lots and lots of people are going to hear your wisdom today. So no pressure, right?
But I know that as nurses, one of the things that we really struggled with, especially since the pandemic, is this concept of resilience and how, you know, coming out of the pandemic. How do we continue to build resilience among our teams? And I think resilience is kind of a broad concept, right. And it's hard for people to get their arms around it. So we try to think about resilience in, like, two ways, right? So one is what we call activation, or it's your why. Like, what motivates you to come to work and do the work you're doing every day? And how do we continue and connect people to the mission, vision and values of their organizations? Or in your cases, the teams that you work on and the organizations? The flip side of resilience we call decompression. Or how we get away from the work and how you recharge your batteries. So let's start with the why. And I would love to just hear from you. Annie, we'll start with you. What is it that keeps you connected to the work that you do every day at cedars?
[00:03:16] Speaker D: Well, actually, it's about the patience, the patient population that I take care of. It's really. It excites me, although it is exhausting. But I just like to go see my patients every day. And I always try to think, like, if I'm lazy for the day or I just don't want to go to work or can I just call in sick? But if I have that thought and I try to pursue that, I'm like, what's gonna happen to my patient that I need to see today? Who's going to discharge tomorrow? Because I need to provide asumi teaching, or I need to do change a wound care dressing and stuff like that. So, like, okay, forget calling in sick. I will go to work today. So it's just an innate motivation to go to work. And it's a compassion that we have for our patients. And also have to think about my team members. Imagine there are only like six of us covering an entire hospital, almost thousand beds.
It's just amazing when you try to think, like, I can make a difference if I go to work today. And that has been my mission statement, like, or my mission statement also, like, it's always about caring for others and making a big difference every day. I remember how this campaign material that we have when I was in another state, and it's always like, to promote diversity and inclusion in healthcare and also encourage other people of minority that to increase their job opportunities in healthcare. And so I was part of that campaign. And then I have to write a little sentence or a campaign note, like, what will make an impact? And so I kept to those words that I really love up to this day. And it's about caring for others and making a big difference in the lives of others every day. So I always hold onto that. So if I, like, feel lazy to go to work, I just, like, I need to care, I'm making a big difference. And later on, I don't know if I can just impact one person in my life that, to me, is already a success.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Well, something tells me, Annie, that you impact way more than one person a day and the work that you do, just getting to know you for this short period of time, I've been so impressed just by the warmth and the empathy that you show, and I can see why your patients, at a really difficult time, just love you and the work that you do. So thank you for that. Well, David, I mean, the emergency department is a crazy place. I started my career there. I think we took the lion's share of a lot of the pandemic, especially at the beginning. But when you think about yourself and what keeps you motivated as a leader and going to work every day, what is that like for you?
[00:05:51] Speaker C: Well, it always, as Annie said, it always comes back to the patients. That's why, hopefully, we all got into this field was to help people and to be there for patients when certainly, as in the ED, as we say, you know, and they're sometimes in their most desperate time of need. But for me also, it's the team. I really. I don't know that there's been many times, in all honesty, in the 20 years I've been in the ED that I haven't wanted to go to work. You know, I just. I enjoy the team. I enjoy being there for the patients. Although in a leadership role, I'm not at the bedside quite as much anymore. That's still very important to me to make sure that my team is caring for patients in the way that. That they deserve to be treated. And so it really, ultimately all gets back to that. Treating the patients with the respect and dignity that they deserve.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. I'll tell you, I always say, you can take the nurse leader out of the clinical space, but I was on a plane a couple weeks ago, and somebody had a medical emergency, and I was very happy to just jump right in there and try to get some skills back. So I totally can relate to what you're saying. It is fun stuff. Right. The really difficult thing, I think that I hear as I travel around the country and meet with nurses in all parts of the country every day is, what are we doing to recharge our batteries. So I always like to get the insight from high performing nurses like you who are doing incredible things going above and beyond. Like, what is it that helps you keep your batteries charged so that you can get through the next day and really decompress from the work. So, David, why don't we start with you this time?
[00:07:28] Speaker C: Well, for me, and probably be hypocritical to say, you know, all those things we talk about taking care of ourselves and none of us maybe do it to the degree we should, but I really am pretty regimented and I have to kind of be that way to keep myself going and keep my batteries charged. So just getting up early in the morning, going, getting a workout in early in the morning and really just being regimented for me is what helps keep me also trying so much now to focus on. And this is the same for the team to hopefully help. You know, I preach to them to do the same. They really need to have their personal life and things in order on that front and not bring that into work as well, but also just trying to focus so much on the positives or focus on the positives as much as we can because I feel like we're just so inundated nowadays with the more of the negatives, and I heard it here just yesterday talking about the reality is there's way more positive comments floating out there, right? And I'm constantly telling the team that we got to take those things and get back to remembering what it is or, you know, why it is we do what we do and realizing that the majority of patients and people appreciate what we do. And it is important work.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: It's funny because what I tell leaders when I'm speaking with the groups is that I ask everybody in the room, raise your hand if all you do is deal with problems all day long and most everybody raises their hand. And I was like, surprised. You're a paid problem solver. That's what we're paying you to do. But what happens is that when you are focused on problems all day long and solving really complicated problems like nurses are asked to solve every day, sometimes you forget that for every problem that you have in front of you, there's like 99 things that went really well and we have to really take time to celebrate. I think those small wins, somebody even joked to one time and said, you know, I just go tell everyone, thank you for coming to work today, because sometimes that's what people need just to be recognized that they actually showed up. Right now I have to tell you, just meeting you for the first time yesterday, I would never have guessed you were so regimented. I'm kidding. I can tell you're very on point with that. So.
[00:09:50] Speaker C: So I have to keep myself.
But again, hypocritical as well, because I probably don't always take care.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Well, as somebody who's not very regimented, I really appreciate, appreciate people like you in my life. So that's awesome. So, Annie, when you think about for you, what is it that helps you recharge and how do you keep your team motivated?
[00:10:08] Speaker D: First of all, I start my day by praying. I'm not a very religious person, but I have to remind myself, like, I need to wear a cross or I have a tattoo on my wrist for a cross. So that reminds me, if I'm like, so into everything and kind of distracted to things, I just kind of look at my wrist. If I'm not wearing a necklace, I'm like, okay, I need to pray, be silent and just quick, say a quick thank you and praise to God.
And then I go to our cedar sign. We have a chapel, so it's interdenominational, so you can be there and everyone else is going to be there and praising God in all different ways. But I just have to go. I have to make sure that I go there for a day or like few minutes in a day, and then that's it.
During the pandemic, I think it's a blessing to be out in California, especially in LA, because even if it's in the city, we have so many little hiking trails, and I have learned to hike. And my husband, he was so happy. He got me a walking stick. He got me a walking, like a hiking booth, like, all geared up, so.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: You look good, too. Right?
[00:11:21] Speaker D: I know, right? And there was one time funny because there were kids behind us and like, oh, there's grandma with hurricane. I'm not a grandma. We just have gray hair, but not yet. So it was, it was, it was funny, even if we're just going to Griffith park. So it's just a short, easy trail. But I've learned, like, some perseverance and patience and endurance, which sometimes I lose it because, like, if you're being called to see a patient, provide counsel, and there's an urgency, you kind of like rush through the patient's room and then you're catching your breath and like, that's not healthy for me. So I need to rethink about that. And then if course, we're not allowed to go out, if you're not going to a park, so you're stuck at home. So I've learned to go back and play with my colors. So I painted.
So there's one thing that I have a Covid series that I called, and I started, like, maybe four paintings that I tried to do. One.
My mission was, like, to paint one color at a time, so I would mix my colors, and that made me so happy. So I'll be just like, go to one room and then just start paying big collars. My husband will be calling me, like, and it's time for lunch. Like, I'm fine. I'm fine with my collars here. So I've been mixing my primary colors and come up with some happy callers. So that was something, a great relief for me during the pandemic.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Would you be willing to share those with our viewers and our listeners? Because we would love to share them.
[00:12:49] Speaker D: Yes. Please follow me on Instagram.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:52] Speaker D: At neocampo photography.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Okay. Annie Ocampo Duffer talks to me on Instagram, and we'll put a link in the podcast to your work, because I'd love for people to see how you recharge your batteries through your art. That's beautiful. That's so great. I'll tell you. I was the chief nurse of a large teaching hospital on the east coast during the pandemic. And I think about that time as one of the most difficult times in my 31 year nursing career. And the beautiful things that happened every single day, as our staff were just terrified. I mean, they were absolutely terrified. And I still, you know, have trouble talking about some of the days. Like, we had a day that had. We had, like, more than 40 deaths and one of our intensive care units in a 24 hours period, and we were moving bodies to refrigerated trucks. And it was just mind blowing to me that I was, like, living through this. And I think now that we're all able to be on the other side of that and kind of looking back, there were some beautiful moments like you described in a really, really dark time. And what's so cool to me, and kind of the great work that we do at press Ganey, is that we're seeing the data are really starting to improve for nurses and nursing workforce engagement, and I find that to be incredibly hopeful. So I used to work in a catholic hospital, and they used to always say that hope was not a strategy. But I think right now, that's something that people really need. And I can really tell that both of you bring that to the table every day. So I really appreciate you sharing that story. So I want to flip gears just a little bit and talk about your outcomes and just, you know, what it is about the work. When you are working so hard every day and you're thinking about the difference that your team is making, talk to us a little bit about how you really balance the need to deliver clinical excellence, but also our need to be humans. Right. And have a human experience and be compassionate. So I don't know which one of you wants to start first on that, but maybe David will start with you, just put you on the spot.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: Sure. No, for me, I think there's still, again, you get back to the patient and treating humans as humans and as we all deserve to be treated, but being open and honest with staff, listening to them, listening to your team understanding, because I've said before, oftentimes they have the answers. And that frontline team, especially for me, is important. My leadership team, they're doing the hard work, you know, each and every day, but to. To really just listen to them, be open and honest with them as well, to attempt to solve problems and is the way that we all kind of continue to move forward.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome.
And I know that. I mean, because we work with your amazing organizations, the outcomes that you're showing are so supported by all the work that you're doing. And what we know in this kind of post pandemic world is organizations that are really focused on employee engagement, even before patient engagement, have far better outcomes than organizations that aren't focusing on employees and employee engagement. I think that's great. So, Annie, how about you? You have a really unique role in that. You deal with patients from all the service lines across the organization. So how do you all balance the need to deliver these great outcomes and also to make sure that you're delivering human care at a very intimate and difficult time for many of your patients?
[00:16:18] Speaker D: Yeah, actually, we start our day once we get our assignments, we start already solving the day, solving problems. And so even at the end of the day, the last hour of our shift, we're still solving problems. It's like a never ending, but in between, as the senior nurse in the team, I try to encourage. I'm more like the influencer.
Social media is really.
I know.
Correct.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: We kind of get you on, David. Yeah.
[00:16:46] Speaker D: So I'm, like, trying to influence them. Like, if they have a problem or a situation that they need to address, I try to give all of the experiences I've had, like, this has worked before, maybe, but I will provide another option for you. So kind of giving the team an opportunity for problem solving. What I found most effective is effective listening and effective communication, because that brings up the possibilities of solving issues. And then we also look at innovation, what is available out there.
Even before pandemic, we were faced with pressure injuries, hospital acquired pressure injuries. And it's coming because it's not because we're not giving the best care, the patient, but because the patients are getting sick. And it is because I just don't know. Like, when I started nursing, you know, when you have a leg wound, that's it, and then you go home. But now with the complexity of the medical issues, we just don't know how to, like, address each system. But you have to address the patient as a whole, not because they have a wound, and then you're just only addressing the wound part. You have to address and still go back to the patient and talk to them. What has caused, what's your living situation and who is your support system, because that way you can tell how to mitigate circumstances, like from having this one get worsened. And so going back to the team and having that opportunity to problem solve and communicate with other disciplines, that is there an innovation that we can touch so that, you know, create? Or as I've said, I'm an innovator, so I would like to bring something to the table that hasn't been done or could work if there's evidence based. I am the evidence based person in our team. If you're presenting a product to me, all I would ask, where is the publication?
[00:18:38] Speaker B: And just the look on your face right now? I would give it to you right away because I would be so terrified. I did not know exactly anything.
[00:18:44] Speaker D: That's my training. I actually. That took my training from the surgeons I worked with in the past, because if I have a nice product I've seen at the conference, this is the best product. I'm resold. And the surgeons would be looking at me like, Annie, where's the publication in this? So I've kind of had that trade now. And so that's very encouraging for the team to have. Like, before we present solutions. First, let's look at the evidence, the patient outcomes, the patient satisfaction. What are the patients telling us?
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Well, as one of the largest healthcare data companies, we love to hear about you using data to help inform your decision. So we love that you bring up a really interesting challenge, though, which is technology. And it's funny, because before we started the podcast, we were talking to David about not being very active on social media. And so we were talking about the role of technology, not only in our leadership. So I use LinkedIn a lot to connect with folks who are interested in the work that we're doing at press ganey. And technology just in general, I think, has presented some really interesting challenges for nursing. My favorite story to tell is I was visiting a hospital not too long ago and the entire medical record had a short outage, and every nurse was panicking because nobody knew how to chart on paper. And I was like, this is something I can help you with, like the soapy, soapier notes, all of those things. Remember that from way back in the day. So when you think about technology and both the things that it's helped to improve, but also the barrier that it provides in the human connection sometimes, what do you think about that?
[00:20:16] Speaker C: Well, as you can probably imagine, when computers charting first came along, I was one of those that was probably losing my mind. I wanted to stay on paper and the whole works with that. But I think there's certainly, there's obviously so many benefits to it, but there is also those challenges. And I think that has been a very real challenge in terms of the human connection, because patients from nursing physicians on up, all they see is people coming into a room and charting away on a computer. And kind of the focus, we've got to be very intentional about focusing on the patient, really following through with all of the hated acronym and all those things that we talk about. But when you really go back to that, it's just basic communication. I think certainly the computers and that part of technology have created a challenge with that. And we just, you know, I don't think a lot of times nurses or anyone is doing it, maybe intentionally, obviously, but we just don't realize, like, that becomes your world and you're, you're doing that.
[00:21:29] Speaker D: So.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Annie, what do you think?
[00:21:32] Speaker D: I think what I've learned from today's are our speaker, he talked about artificial intelligence, and we need to be responsible on any type of technology that we are using for nurses. I agree with you, David. Like, when the charting through computer came out, like, should I nail this? Or how do I do with this? And stuff like that. So a little bit of a challenge. I tried to be an early adopter because if not, where am I going to be at? I have to, like, follow the direction of the new generation. If so, you're a millennial z or whatever, Gen Z.
I have to follow you because otherwise I'll be lost in this world. And so innovation is really great. I love it.
The only thing that makes me step back and look at the entire picture is that we should not be really relying all the time with the computerized charting. When we go see a patient, we really have to talk to them because I agree with you that we could lose that connection to the patients. The reason why we're doing the technology and then the charting through computer is to lessen the time that we spend and spend more time at the bedside.
I'm fascinated with my executive director's passion for bringing technology because her goal is to bring in more technology so that the nurses could spend more time at the bedside caring and talking to the patients. I love going to the floors, even if like I'm not being consulted. I just like to go around and see if patients need help. Because if a patient sees you roaming around the hallway, you get, hey nurse. Hey nurse, can you help me? And then I'm always willing, like something, can I help you? Can I call the nurse for you? Where's your call light? So that's the best thing you could do. And then that's why we have hospital volunteers, because there's not enough staff on the floor, but at least like getting to the patient's bedside and connecting with them with a little bit of use of maybe more use of technology, but having more time to spend with them.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: And that's so like you heard this morning from our president Darren Dworkin, that we're really trying to build artificial intelligence into our tools just to lighten the load because there's a lot of things that could be teed up, but it's always going to take that human connection. So we talk about that in a model here at press Ganey called Compassion and connected care. And one of the things that we teach is the 56 2nd connection. And that we've studied this and we know that you can make a deep, meaningful human connection in just 56 seconds if you sit down eye to eye and heart to heart with somebody and just ask them about themselves. And I think so many times we just jump right in to the work that we forget that there's a human being that has family and challenges and pets and things like that that make them a whole person, then we really want to bring that to the table. Well, I love your thoughts on this and I think that there's really cool opportunity for technology as it goes forward. So we'll see when we meet again maybe next year we can talk more about how things have changed.
So as we kind of close up our time together, well, first of all, we're going to have a little bit of fun, so I'm going to ask you just some rapid fire questions at the very end. Well, let's do that now. And then I'm going to ask you a really meaningful question at the end. Okay. So I want to just know a couple things about you and your work life. Okay. Are you ready? Okay, here we go. All right. What's your favorite snack, David?
[00:25:06] Speaker C: At work, it's usually a protein bar.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Of course, this does not surprise me at all. Okay, Annie, when you paint, what's your favorite color to paint with?
[00:25:15] Speaker D: Pink.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Pink. Really? Press candy pink. Of course, you get an extra prize. Okay. So mine would be green. And my favorite work snack is anything that they're serving on the plane. Cause I live on the plane. All right. When you are at work and you need a big, quick stress relief, what is it for you?
[00:25:33] Speaker C: I just have to shut my door and take a big, deep breath.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Totally good. You talked a little bit about yours. Any other tips?
[00:25:40] Speaker C: I eat chocolate.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: You eat chocolate. Are you a dark chocolate or milk chocolate?
[00:25:44] Speaker D: Dark chocolate.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Okay. All right, here we go. Pizza toppings. Very controversial. Pineapple or no, David?
[00:25:49] Speaker C: No pineapple.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Pineapple on your pizza. Of course. Me, too. I'm absolutely about the pineapple on the pizza, and I think these are the important questions that we really need to get to the heart of as we have these conversations, so. And thank you for indulging me in that. I like to be a little bit silly and have a little bit of fun, so. But I'd really just like to hear from you.
You know, when you think about our profession and this incredible gift that perfect strangers give us as nurses to just walk into their lives when they're in crisis, which I look at as a privilege, what is your hope for nursing and hope for what you see in the future as you think about all the things that we talked about today? So why don't we start with Annie? We'll do ladies first for the last.
[00:26:32] Speaker D: Question here, actually, healthcare has a lot of uncertainties.
As a nursing professional, I just want to guarantee that all these technologies that we are getting will make our lives better. And when it's time for me to seek hospitalization, which could be, like, 2030 years from now, I want to have to have that experience that I will go into the hospital and just have a very caring, interdisciplinary team that will take care of me, not only me, but my family, and to even co workers. So I want to be in that. That I could say that I have made a difference while I was a nurse 30 years ago or so many years ago.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And David, how about you?
[00:27:24] Speaker C: My hope would be that there's going to be a lot of people who will continue to want to be in the nursing field, to continue caring for people for all the reasons that Annie just said, and to hopefully enjoy it the way that I have and find the ultimate passion in it and do it for all the right reasons.
So I think that would be my overriding hope.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: I love that. I absolutely love that. Well, I mean, since I'm the host, I get to share my hope, too. And my hope is that everybody who listens to this podcast and got to see the videos about you and the incredible work that you're both doing find some inspiration for themselves in you as incredible role models for our profession. So it truly has been my honor to get to know you through this award process. And I've loved our conversation here today. So thank you so much. Annie, thank you so much, David, for joining us. And thank you all for joining our press k and e podcast today. We'll see you next time.
[00:28:22] Speaker D: See you next Thursday. Thank you.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: That's a wrap. Thank you for joining us today, and special thanks to our guests for sharing their time and insights. Stay tuned for our next episode, which will be be released soon. In the meantime, visit our website where you'll find more information on the human experience and a lot more.
